10 replies to this topic

[vojd]

I recently moved from upstate New York to Ottawa, that is just 90 miles north.
Naturally, I need to open canadian bank accounts (to get my pay) and credit cards (to avoid currency conversions). And I found that extremely difficult and painful.

First of all, there are much less good deals here and conditions are worse.

Second, it seems to me that two credit bureau (Equifax and Transunion) here do not share their own databases! Cust. rep. in Equifax (by the way US company) said they do. But why I am getting refused for any credit card I apply in Canada and getting accepted in US??!

Third, even to open a checking account (P&C) they check your canadian credit history and refuse you if you do not have it! Unbelievable! I an bringing money not asking for some.

Fourth, I have two credit cards with Citibank USA. I tried to open one in Citibank Canada (with worse cashback option than US) and they refused me! I gave them all information again and they still re-processing validating the same info 3 times already!

And dealing with other services not fun either. How do you like CAD 99.99 security deposit + account activation fee (without any connection) from HydroOttawa?

Does anybody have the same problems?

[markber]

You have to accept that Canadian banks and credit cards companies are more expensive and do not offer as many perks as U.S. banks do. It is just the way it is.

You did not mention your immigration status in Canada. If you are not a permanent resident, it will be not be easy for you to get a loan or credit card in there.

If you have an AmEx card, you can convert it to Canadian AmEx (actually, it is not a conversion, they will just issue you a card based on your U.S. credit history).

RBC bank can request your U.S. credit history if you need its credit card ASAP. Or you can just open an RBC checking or savings account and wait for six months. In 6 months, their Visa department will send you as an RBC customer an offer to apply for a credit card that you personal banker can activate from his end.

RBC bank is non-permanent resident friendly (see eligibility info here )
If you have troubles opening an account in other Canadian banks, try RBC. Also, having a Centura bank account (U.S. "branch" of RBC) can be very helpful when it comes to verifying your identity.

I recently moved from upstate New York to Ottawa, that is just 90 miles north.
Naturally, I need to open canadian bank accounts (to get my pay) and credit cards (to avoid currency conversions). And I found that extremely difficult and painful.

First of all, there are much less good deals here and conditions are worse.

Second, it seems to me that two credit bureau (Equifax and Transunion) here do not share their own databases! Cust. rep. in Equifax (by the way US company) said they do. But why I am getting refused for any credit card I apply in Canada and getting accepted in US??!

Third, even to open a checking account (P&C) they check your canadian credit history and refuse you if you do not have it! Unbelievable! I an bringing money not asking for some.

Fourth, I have two credit cards with Citibank USA. I tried to open one in Citibank Canada (with worse cashback option than US) and they refused me! I gave them all information again and they still re-processing validating the same info 3 times already!

And dealing with other services not fun either. How do you like CAD 99.99  security deposit + account activation fee (without any connection) from HydroOttawa?

Does anybody have the same problems?

[vojd]

Thanks markber!
In fact, now I have a permanent resident status here, and I did not have it in US. Does not help much. They still extremely burocratic and slow. The only thing they do is request info from credit bureau (canadian) even if you tell them the situation. They do not care much, the competition is small here.
So, I ended up to be a joint holder with my wife who has been much longer here (everything in Canada is on her name ).
I am wondering, will this build my credit history? BMO bank rep said yes, CIBC - no.
In US in earlier 2000 that did not build credit history for my wife, but starting from ~2003-2004 they started to record credit history for joint card holders as well (to the best of my knowledge).
Anyway, thanks for a great site

[markber]

You may want to check if Zellers/HBC reports info about its store card holders to credit bureaus and, if so, use your US credit card (if any) to open HBC/Zellers store card to help you accumulate Canadian credit history. Zellers does not check your file in credit bureaus when it opens an account for you.

If you do not have an US AmEx card and want to open one (to get a Canadian AmEx later), you may still do it if your US driver license has not expired yet and you have an US address. You can use mail forwarding services such as USABOX (http://www.usabox.com/) to get an US address.

Again, if you can afford to wait for your own credit card for 6 months, the RBC route is the way to go. Or if you want it faster, RBC is capable of requesting your US credit history and indeed does this. Their non-fee cards suck though (no cash back or rewards). However, you can get Air Miles and HBC rewards cards at no fee regardless where you bank.

> I am wondering, will this build my credit history?

If you believe that your joint accounts should be listed in your Canadian credit history, request your file from Canadian credit bureaus and, if these accounts are not there, ask them to correct your files.


> They still extremely bureaucratic and slow.

I sense a cultural shock caused by your recent USA-2-Canada transition. You will likely feel a bit better after a year or so of living in Canada. No country is perfect. But I think it is easier to tolerate Canadian bureaucracy than absence of a stable immigration status (in US).

Cheers,

Mark

Thanks markber!
In fact, now I have a permanent resident status here, and I did not have it in US. Does not help much. They still extremely burocratic and slow. The only thing they do is request info from credit bureau (canadian) even if you tell them the situation. They do not care much, the competition is small here.
So, I ended up to be a joint holder with my wife who has been much longer here (everything in Canada is on her name  ).
I am wondering, will this build my credit history? BMO bank rep said yes, CIBC - no.
In US in earlier 2000 that did not build credit history for my wife, but starting from ~2003-2004 they started to record credit history for joint card holders as well (to the best of my knowledge).
Anyway, thanks for a great site 

[vojd]

You are absolutely right!
Just got a feeling that I moved years back and have to start over again. But if consider this as an expansion to the new territories that feels much better
And thanks for suggestions!
I will try AmEx and others you mentioned. Hey, it is been many years since I opened a credit without $$ bonus and cashback Anyway, I have to do what I have to do.
In US, I think, currently Citibank credit with 1/5% cashback and PayPal debit with 1.5% are the best choices (or ocassionally Discover with 5% category if you buy in this category). Correct me if I wrong.
Air miles are completely useless for me as I do not flight in US for pleasure (prefer to drive), cannot stick to the same company, and they are not very helpful in flying to Ukraine or Russia. They also tend to expire (Lufthansa, e.g.). Besides, the last time I had a vacation was 3 years ago
Thanks for the mail service. I had this idea too.
By the way, other useful link for a FREE phone/fax number in Seattle area http://www.k7.net .

[mjg]

Hi, I fully understand your plight. I'm Canadian and moved to the US about 6 years ago and faced the same issues. even though I had almost 20 years of credit history in Canada and both credit bureaus (Equifax and Transunion) do business in both countries, i was refused time and time again when applying for credit here. even though i explained my situation and offered credit card statements (Royal Bank) and even had bank managers say that should be sufficient and they would follow it up, i would get the same letter stating that for lack of credit history, i was being denied. of course, each denial hurting my already non-existant credit score. my only way around it was to get a secured card and play that game so i decided to continue to use my Canadian credit card. i had to go through the same ordeal with a home mortgage and settle for a higher rate because of my lack of credit history.

basically the way I saw it, if my credit history didn't happen in this country, then it didn't happen.

i now have a decent credit score in this country and it's behind me but i recall the frustration and really a lack of anyone who could sympathize with me or was really willing to help me.

hang in there.

I recently moved from upstate New York to Ottawa, that is just 90 miles north.
Naturally, I need to open canadian bank accounts (to get my pay) and credit cards (to avoid currency conversions). And I found that extremely difficult and painful.

First of all, there are much less good deals here and conditions are worse.

Second, it seems to me that two credit bureau (Equifax and Transunion) here do not share their own databases! Cust. rep. in Equifax (by the way US company) said they do. But why I am getting refused for any credit card I apply in Canada and getting accepted in US??!

Third, even to open a checking account (P&C) they check your canadian credit history and refuse you if you do not have it! Unbelievable! I an bringing money not asking for some.

Fourth, I have two credit cards with Citibank USA. I tried to open one in Citibank Canada (with worse cashback option than US) and they refused me! I gave them all information again and they still re-processing validating the same info 3 times already!

And dealing with other services not fun either. How do you like CAD 99.99 security deposit + account activation fee (without any connection) from HydroOttawa?

Does anybody have the same problems?

[vojd]

Thank you for the support!
They usually claim, oh well, it is a different country, and forget that they talk about the credit score of a person, not a country.
I guess the real reason they are too lazy and burocratic, and simply do not care.
But the real big challenge is to bring the car from US to Ontario and buy an Ontario auto insurance. The amount of time, paperwork and money it requires comparable to a full immigration process. On top of DRL installations, recall letters, etc. 4 (FOUR) inspections required: federal, Ontario safety, Ontario emission, pre-insurance inspection! And a lot of paperwork to buy a reasonably priced (still expensive) auto insurance.
And so called Canadian free health insurance is not so free (you pay it with your income tax) and easy to get. We had the baby born outside of Canada (in US) and now we have to immigrate her (it will take ~2 years)
and during this time we have to pay for her visitors visas and visitors health insurance (regular visits are not covered, for follow up treatments must go to the country of residence - US?). It is so hard!
Burocracy must have at least some sense!

Hi, I fully understand your plight. I'm Canadian and moved to the US about 6 years ago and faced the same issues. even though I had almost 20 years of credit history in Canada and both credit bureaus (Equifax and Transunion) do business in both countries, i was refused time and time again when applying for credit here. even though i explained my situation and offered credit card statements (Royal Bank) and even had bank managers say that should be sufficient and they would follow it up, i would get the same letter stating that for lack of credit history, i was being denied. of course, each denial hurting my already non-existant credit score. my only way around it was to get a secured card and play that game so i decided to continue to use my Canadian credit card. i had to go through the same ordeal with a home mortgage and settle for a higher rate because of my lack of credit history.

basically the way I saw it, if my credit history didn't happen in this country, then it didn't happen.

i now have a decent credit score in this country and it's behind me but i recall the frustration and really a lack of anyone who could sympathize with me or was really willing to help me.

hang in there.

[markber]

And a lot of paperwork to buy a reasonably priced (still expensive) auto insurance.

It is not really a banking issue but if anybody is interested in this...having State Farm insurance in US makes it much easier to get State Farm auto insurance in Canada. Probably, the same is true for Allstate.

even though i explained my situation and offered credit card statements (Royal Bank) and even had bank managers say that should be sufficient and they would follow it up, i would get the same letter stating that for lack of credit history,

Using a Canadian credit card to open a store credit card (Target, JC Penny) in US or a US credit card to open a store credit card in Canada (HBC: Zellers, Bay, etc) will do the job and start somebody's credit history. Having an AmEx credit card is also extremely useful (see discussion above).

If one has a Royal bank account, he may want to open a Centura bank account (even though there is no Centura branch in town) and then a Centura credit card. Centura and RBC folks can talk to each other and transfer credit and bank histories between US and Canada.

and during this time we have to pay for her visitors visas and visitors health insurance (regular visits are not covered, for follow up treatments must go to the country of residence - US?). It is so hard!

Are you talking about free Ontario health insurance (I do not think that health insurance in the other states is free... definitely not in Alberta) ? Have you considered buying an additional health insurance from Canadian Blue Cross (http://www.bluecross.ca/) for your baby?

[vojd]

Thanks markber, for the good ideas!
I finally got Citibank mastercard after many burocratic loops and confirmations (they called me 3 (!!!) times to confirm my work phone number/payrol status - no credit card in US did it before). My two credit cards in US citibank help me to make it happen. The process took about 3-4 months. Zellers and some gas card turn me down - even my new Citibank card did not help me to get a credit card from Zellers.
PC Financial denied me a credit card despite having a checking account there.
I think being a student helps to get a first credit card from MBNA. Otherwise it is tough.
Talking about health insurance - this is different from US. If you are not a citizen or PR you can buy only visitor health insurance that covers only emergencies. I think the reason for this is that insurance companies try to get the money back (in portion at least) from a provincial health insurances for citizens and PRs and they cannot do it for others. Now imagine a baby returning to her home country (US) for a follow up treatment alone as her parents do not have a visa to US! And being a baby she cannot buy/get a health insurance in US either! What a burocratic joke
Now we a fighting and pushing through her immigration, and it seems it will take at least two years to get (It is also hilarious, but this is a subject for another topic). Without it I cannot get her a SIN (Canadian version of SSN) either.

[markber]

I finally got Citibank mastercard after many burocratic loops and confirmations (they called me 3 (!!!) times to confirm my work phone number/payrol status - no credit card in US did it before). My two credit cards in US citibank help me to make it happen. The process took about 3-4 months.

That is cool! AmEx card (if you had one from US) would work for you too..much faster than 3 months...but then AmEx in Canada does not have good reward cards without an annual fee. Citibank has 1% cash back Enrich card. 1% cash back is as good as it gets in Canada at the moment.

Zellers and some gas card turn me down - even my new Citibank card did not help me to get a credit card from Zellers.

This is strange. Usually, the only thing that they care about is your birthday and your credit card from another bank. I think even SIN is optional. Zellers/Bay give you a functional temporary HBC credit card right away.
How did Zellers justify the rejection? Did they reject to give you a temporary HBC card or a permanent one?

PC Financial denied me a credit card despite having a checking account there.

Nice to know. Several people complained that PC financial does not even send rejection letters when they reject you.

I think being a student helps to get a first credit card from MBNA. Otherwise it is tough.

I know that MBNA wants you to be either a PR or a citizen and they do not care if you used to have a MBNA card in US.

Talking about health insurance - this is different from US. If you are not a citizen or PR you can buy only visitor health insurance that covers only emergencies.

.

I know that temporary workers in Canada can get a regular health insurance from work (e.g. from a university) if available. Kids without SIN can be attached to this insurance as dependents. Can you have your baby as dependent on your health insurance policy (if any)?

[vojd]

Wow, it was nice to see this thread again.

Guess what, I am back to US and back to the forum. I lost my job in Ottawa (the program was cut) and was not able to find any job in Canada. It is a nice country but job market is really small and tough there, after all it is big in size but small in population.

At the end I settled alright there and opened all accounts I needed, so if anyone needs referrals and suggestion - please let me know It did take time and effort to settle and it was sad to leave.

On the plus side, now I have referrals for both US and Canadian banks